The 5th-gen CEO of J.M. Smucker explains how family members must ‘earn a seat’ at the snacks empire—and be more than a nepo baby

Taylor Swift isn’t the only person who’s benefited from the love of NFL star Travis Kelce. In addition to being the music superstar’s beau, the Kansas City Chiefs tight end is also a big aficionado of J.M. Smucker’s Uncrustables, which has helped put the frozen crustless peanut butter and jelly sandwiches at the center of pop culture and fueled a sales boom.

CEO Mark Smucker, whose forebear Jerome Monroe Smucker founded the company in 1897, says Kelce’s passion for the product is invaluable, free advertising, especially as the chief executive looks to build what he believes could become a billion-dollar business.

The company generated $650 million in sales of Uncrustables last year, but the mother lode would be to catch Swift wolfing down an Uncrustable. Smucker says that would be extremely unlikely, and neither is the CEO, since 2016, waiting for that kind of happenstance to more broadly transform the company, which has long been famous for its namesake jelly and jam products.

In November, J.M. Smucker completed its second-biggest deal when it bought Hostess for $5.6 billion, solidifying the company’s place in the fast-growing snacks market. Wall Street, however, is not sold on the deal in part because of its size, with shares down 10% since the acquisition’s announcement in September. But Smucker insists the deal is key to staying at the top of the snacks boom.

The company has brands in other categories, like Folgers coffee, and in the pet sector, Milk-Bone and Meow Mix. But last year, it shed its Kibbles ’n Bits and 9Lives brands to reserve more ammunition for snack deals. “We’ve spent the last four years really reshaping our portfolio for growth,” says Smucker.

While Smucker is now a dealmaking fifth-generation scion steering the family business through the turbulent food industry wars, he bristles at the idea that he is a “nepo kid.” In fact, the family has laid down rules for relatives who want to join the business. To earn their spot, they are strongly encouraged to get extensive work experience outside the company, with some time abroad, and obtain a graduate degree. The CEO went to Argentina to work in advertising before joining the company. Staying in South America, he then joined Smucker’s Brazil to launch what has been a 26-year career. He received a master’s degree from the Thunderbird School of Global Management in Phoenix.

“My journey here took a lot of twists and turns, and it was not easy. Ultimately, I was able to earn this seat,” he says.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Fortune: You’re doubling down on your bet on the snacks segment. How does it fit into the current conversation on healthier eating habits?

Our consumers are eating more snacks than ever. About 70% of consumers eat two snacks a day. Snacks take all kinds of forms: A sweet coffee beverage in the middle of the afternoon can count as a snack. Yogurt and fruit can count as a snack. We’ve spent the last four years reshaping our portfolio for growth, and we know that snacking in different forms is going to continue to be a fast-growing category.

Can and should food companies steer people’s habits, or is it really just a matter of catering to them?

We have to start with the consumer. We have to understand what they’re seeking and provide them with what they want and what they need. We want to provide them with alternatives for both healthy and indulgent options. As individuals, we are responsible for what we put in our bodies.

Your Uncrustables product is part of the cultural zeitgeist thanks partly to football players like Travis Kelce, also known as Taylor Swift’s companion. Why has this product caught on so much?

There has been a real intersection with popular culture. You have Drake eating one onstage. You have both Kelce brothers talking about it on their podcast. The Baltimore Ravens team needs 7,500 [Uncrustables] a season.

What would you do to see Taylor Swift take a bite out of an Uncrustable on social media? Do you sometimes pray for that to happen?

We’ve joked about how great it would be if Taylor did that, and it would be more special if she did it organically. But look, we are not holding our breath. She’s a savvy businesswoman, and you don’t see her partnering with many brands.

Your Hostess acquisition is your second biggest ever, but it has dented your stock price. Hostess has sought bankruptcy protection twice in the past 20 years. What do you see in this deal that perhaps Wall Street doesn’t?

It’s an iconic brand. We really admired how it emerged from the ashes of bankruptcy and how the new owners were able to come up with a much more sustainable, faster-growing, innovative, and better business model than the original owners. We divested some businesses in our portfolio, which enabled us to do the Hostess acquisition. I think that with any acquisition, Wall Street in the early days is waiting and seeing.

J.M. Smucker has a large pet business. How much steam is left in the pet boom, and has the so-called humanization of pets gone too far?

We treat our pets pretty well, sometimes better than we treat our kids. [Laughs.] If you take Milk-Bone, there are a lot of opportunities to premium-ize it. Pet treats are a way to reward our pets, whether you are keeping them occupied or giving them a dental product. There are lots and lots of younger customers getting fur babies, so there’s lots of opportunity even as we see a bit of leveling off in pet adoptions.

Your family name is on the company’s door. How have you fostered a culture where people who aren’t Smuckers feel they can succeed?

Being a family-run business provides cultural strength and a competitive advantage. I like to say we are collaborative internally and competitive externally. That said, J.M. Smucker is a meritocracy, and my journey here took a lot of twists and turns. It was not easy. Ultimately, I was able to earn this seat.

How do the Smuckers make sure family members who want to work at the company earn it?

I want my kids to pursue their hopes and dreams, and if they are truly interested in this, I will help them enter the workforce and learn. But as a family, we have rules. One is that you’ve got to work outside the company no matter what. We prefer family members to also have a graduate degree. And definitely they need to have outside experience. But I will support them in whatever they choose to do.

Correction: This story has been updated to make clear that the $650 million sales figure cited was for the Uncrustables product and not the company as a whole, and to note that Smucker has been at the company for 26 years and not 19 as previously indicated.

This story was originally featured on Fortune.com