Astronomical CEO pay during the pandemic is ‘abuse’: Former Xerox CEO

Former Xerox CEO Ursula Burns joins 'Influencers with Andy Serwer' to discuss America's wage gap and the fight to raise the federal minimum wage.

Video transcript

ANDY SERWER: You also write that the USA is not a zero sum nation. Someone doesn't have to star for me to eat. But what is your reaction to recent revelations about astronomical CEO pay during the pandemic and this latest flurry of articles about billionaires not paying their fair share of taxes? Does that challenge your thinking?

URSULA BURNS: No, actually it reinforces my thinking, in that that's abuse. Some of it is legal abuse. These people not cheating the system. They are paying exactly the taxes that the system said they should pay, or could pay. So these are not criminal-- and we're being-- and CEOs were being paid exactly what the system allows you to be paid.

Just like I said the projects, it's not the building, it's the system surrounding the building. This problem, taxes, CEO pay, is not, are not the buildings or the institutions, or the structures, it's the institutions around it. It should not be possible for you to make $15 billion and pay $5 of taxes.

I know I'm exaggerating on both ends. It just shouldn't be. Figure it out. We have, I don't know how much money we spend for the government, but it's trillions of dollars. Figure it out. Don't make it possible. We should have some reasonable standard that causes alarm above and beyond that that dictates the pay for business leaders. I don't mean founders of-- I get all of that. There's this other thing, if a guy owns [INAUDIBLE], got it.

But you're just some guy who runs a bank. You're a guy who runs a tech company. I don't want us to actually have the government specifying that you've got to make $16 an hour. We tried this thing where it was some ratio to the pay of the-- and when that happened, you remember-- I don't know if you remember this-- I was all over the news, saying this was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my life. Because people figure out a way to gain those kinds of things. You outsource all your low paid employees and all your employees are high paid employees. And OK, fine, you [INAUDIBLE].

But we have to have some kind of expectation, standard, guidance, something that said that over a certain number, you got to come meet with me. I don't know who that would be. It would be the God of government. Let's talk about it. How come you got paid $150 million for running a public serving bank? How come you-- tell me how that works. By the way, good explanation, get the hell out of here. Bad explanation, I'm going to tell your board and your shareholders about it and we're going to get you--

I don't think the government have to run it, but we have to have better expectations than we do today. They're not doing anything illegally.