Influencers with Andy Serwer: Dick Parsons

In this episode of 'Influencers', Andy speaks with Dick Parsons, former CEO of Time Warner and former Chairman at Citigroup as they cover a wide-range of topics, including the January 6 raid on the U.S. Capitol, his experience becoming one of America's first black CEOs, and the lessons he's learned throughout his long and distinguished career.

Video transcript

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ANDY SERWER: Some say, Dick Parsons has done it all. He's had a career that many of us would envy, from serving in the White House, to leading Citibank through crisis, running Time Warner, and even making a name for himself in the NBA. Dick Parsons' resume is anything but ordinary. But his path to success wasn't easy, overcoming racial inequalities that still exist in America today, and working his way into a position as one of the country's first Black CEOs.

In this episode of "Influencers," Dick Parsons joins me to discuss his journey to the top of the business world, his economic outlook for the new year, and how we, as a society, can bridge the deep divide in our nation's politics.

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Hello, everyone I'm Andy Serwer and welcome to "Influencers." And welcome to our guest, Dick Parsons, Senior Advisor at private equity firm Providence Equity, and the former chairman of Citigroup, as well as the former CEO of Time Warner. Dick, nice to see you.

DICK PARSONS: Nice see you again, Andy. Been a long time.

ANDY SERWER: Been a long time, indeed. So Dick, I want to start off by asking you about the news of the day, which is what's going on in Washington DC in terms of the protests, the general transition of power from Donald Trump to Joe Biden, and what happened in Georgia as well. But let's start with what's going on in Washington DC with regard to the Capitol. What's your take on that?

DICK PARSONS: Well, you know, it is as various reporters who are down there are saying, it's unprecedented. It's-- it's a surprise to me, because I would have anticipated that, frankly, that the Capitol Police and that the DC Police, augmented by whatever they need to be augmented by, would have been ready for this. But it's almost as if they thought it was going to be just a normal day at the Capitol. So I wonder who was in charge of planning that or preparing for that.

But I think it's-- it really is sort of shameful that we have a president who has, you know-- who was exhorting the mob. That's what this president is doing. He basically, you know, gave a little speech earlier in the day saying, you should all march down to the Capitol and, you know, express your displeasure. While-- while he did not advocate violence, again, been much of that, I gather, yet. Again, everybody knows when you get tens of thousands of people together in an angry mob, violence is a natural, you know, sort of byproduct of it.

So, you know, I don't think our president has covered himself with glory here. But I don't think our president has covered himself with glory since the election. I mean, he's-- he's basically perpetrating a lie, which I personally believe he knows is a lie. But there are those among us, including my wife, who believe that he honestly thinks he won. And that this is-- this is some sort of mental breakdown on his part and he's-- he's now going to have, I think, whatever the result of the storming of the Capitol will be, those are going to be on Donald Trump's hands. Does he care? It doesn't appear that he does. But many of the people who have signed up for this, you know, trip to fantasy land with him, I think, are going to have to rethink their position.

ANDY SERWER: You know, it's interesting to hear you speak this way because when I talk to executives like yourself in private, sometimes they'll say these things. But they're more reluctant to come out publicly and speak. Do you think that these events will spur people to be more, a little bit, forthright or outspoken when it comes to their thoughts?

DICK PARSONS: I think so. I think so. Because, you know, this is something that's like the spiral, and it's spun further out of control every time it goes around the center. And now it's kind of broken through anybody's ability to rationally, sort of, accept it. And so I think that people of-- of, you know, character are finally going to sort of say, it doesn't matter that this guy may be the future of the Republican Party-- I don't think he will be. But there are those who think he can-- he can play kingmaker. It doesn't matter that, you know, he's the President of the United States. His behavior is just out of bounds and wrong.

ANDY SERWER: You and I have been around for a while, remember the Vietnam War era where the country was very divided. Very divided now, too. Do you think we can come back together? And what would it take for that to happen, Dick?

DICK PARSONS: You know, that is the $64,000 question, Andy. Can this country come back together? I hope it can and I think it can. And what would it take? First of all, it'd take somebody who was intentional about bringing the country back together. And I think, actually, Joe Biden may be the guy. He may be the guy. That's his nature. But the other thing it's going to take is it's going to take sort of a regeneratiaon of prosperity spread more equally-- I won't say equitably, but I'll say equally among the populace.

There's-- you know, there are obviously fairly large group of folks who feel they've been left behind, left out in terms of the prosperity of this country. And they probably have. If we owe Donald Trump anything, we owe him the fact that he revealed how large and how dissatisfied that group of people were. Those people have to be made to feel like they are included in the prosperity of the-- of the country. And-- and that's going to be sina qua non, I think, to bringing us back together. People have to feel it in their pockets.

ANDY SERWER: Raphael Warnock has been declared the winner of the US Senate race in Georgia. I'm wondering what your thinking is there, Dick. First Black Senator from the South.

DICK PARSONS: Well, you know, first of all, I think-- I regard it as a mark of progress in the state of Georgia, that-- that there were enough open-minded people who were interested in issues and character to elect a Black Senator. What it-- what it reflects to me, however, is sort of the changing nature and demographic of the population of that state. You know, Atlanta's one of the fastest-- has been for some time-- fastest growing major cities in the country.

And-- and, I think, you know, Warnock, and if Ossoff wins-- Ossoff-- basically owe their election to two things. One, Stacey Abrams, who really mounted a masterful Get Out To Vote effort. And two, the changing nature of the population of the city of Atlanta and of DeKalb County, which are more, sort of, urbanites, more ethnically diverse, and more, sort of, part of the economy that has been prospering in this country. So it's progress, but it's progress that-- that has its root in the changing nature of the population of the state.

ANDY SERWER: Speaking of progress, Dick, you were one of the first Black CEOs in the United States. And I'm sure it was thousands and thousands of times that you were in a position of power as the only person of color in the room. I mean, I know that for a fact because I was several times in those rooms with you. Has anything really changed, Dick? Are things getting better with regard to race in the seats of power in the United States?

DICK PARSONS: Well, yes. Things have changed. When I first started in-- you know, I was a lawyer by training. When I left the law and went into business, you're right. I was-- I was the chairman of a bank and I go to these banking meetings and there were no other African-Americans in the room. And I can't even really remember the year-- I think the year 1998 or 1999-- when Ken Chenault, Stan O'Neal, and I all became CEOs of Fortune 500 companies. And it was-- it was a breakthrough.

And at the time I thought that you would see much more progress in that area than-- than has developed. So it's developed slowly. I think--

- It's go time. [INAUDIBLE].

DICK PARSONS: I think in today's environment, with a focus on diversity and equity and inclusion, that you'll see some-- some, you know-- we'll see the progress speed up. I hope so. I hope so. I thought so 20 years ago, and it didn't happen. I think so now because I think there's more focus in the corporate community and in the political community, and in the community at large, on-- on equity and justice. So I have my fingers crossed, but I'm not predicting that everything's going to be right 10 years from now. It's going to take a while and we just gotta keep-- we just gotta to keep the momentum up that we have and build on.

ANDY SERWER: Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, are these chief executives who are out there talking about social justice and equity, are they really walking the talk?

DICK PARSONS: That-- that is the question, right? Are they doing the things necessary to do to achieve the things they say they want to achieve? And I'm going to say the jury is out. Because 20 years ago and more the answer would be, not much. You know, not so much. And today there's a lot of talk, but we haven't seen the results of any activities or actions taken to make it real. So I'd-- I'd say the jury is out.

But I'd say there's a pretty good chance that we'll see some-- we'll see some positive results from the current momentum. Because I think-- I think as we've gone along, and as the world, frankly, just globalizes, even against the will of those who would like to keep, you know-- keep our stuff, our stuff, and not let others in. The world is globalizing and-- and businesses are finding that you got to-- you got to get talent wherever you can find it.

And if you believe, as I do, and as most people do, that talent is randomly dispersed among populations. It's not white, it's not Black. There's talent everywhere. People are going to be forced to go out and get that talent if they want to compete successfully. So I think that's-- that's going to be the secret sauce that makes, you know, equality and the absence of-- of, you know, disenfranchisement reality.

ANDY SERWER: Dick, you know, I look at your CV, right? And it really is incredibly singular. Right? You were a financial services chief executive, entertainment CEO. Sports, in the NBA, working there. At the Apollo Theater, as well. What do you-- what would you say your-- your true, unique skillset is?

DICK PARSONS: OK. It's a good question. I think that when I left to practice the law, several people questioned me because I didn't really know very much about the arena I was jumping into, which was financial services. I was-- was put on by a then client as president and chief operating officer of a bank, and I ultimately became CEO of the bank. And, you know, I wasn't a banker by background or training. And then when I left the bank I went to Time Warner, which was entertainment, as you just pointed out. You know, I ran an NBA team for awhile.

I think the one thing that all those places were looking for was leadership, right? You need somebody to lead the troops. And we literally-- and the job of the CEO nowadays is so diverse that it's no longer the '50s where the guy who ran General Motors started out by learning how to put a fender on a car, and then how to, you know, mount an engine, and therefore knew everything about the product, and-- and could lead the manufacturing process as head of the enterprise.

Nowadays, CEOs not only have to know about what it is we do, but who it is we do it with, how we deal with not only customers and competitors but governments. Not just ours, but around the world if you lead a global enterprise. How you deal with shareholders. It's a multi, multitalented, multi-aspect requirement. And so you need-- you need someone who can lead. That is to say, who can get others to follow them. And someone who can put the right team around, or her.

And I think if you were to say to me, what's-- what do I think of as my-- my best skill and my most important. It's the ability to pick good people and put them in places where they can do the job. Particularly where they can do the job better than I can. I mean, I-- I don't need to know everything about any company that I was running. What I need to know is-- is, what skills, talent, we needed at various places of the company, find those skills and talents, put somebody in place, and-- and support them. So building-- building effective teams was my-- was my skillset. And then providing a little bit of leadership.

ANDY SERWER: When you look back on your career, what are some of the things that you think that you did right, maybe as a younger person, then as you got through the executive ranks? And some of the things that you did wrong?

DICK PARSONS: Well, I would start by saying, in terms of the things I did right, I put some pretty good teams together. At the Dime, at Time Warner-- you were a part of it-- at Citi when I was chairman of Citi. Getting the right people with their hands on the tasks that needed to be done, and then supporting them, I think I did well.

The things I didn't do well. I didn't move fast enough on many occasions. You see something happening in the marketplace or inside your organization that you have an instinct, that's not right. That needs to be changed or we need to challenge that or we need to do something differently. But some-- I was too hesitant, frequently, to-- to move in a direction that I-- I intuitively felt we should. You know, waiting for the evidence. Maybe that was the lawyer in me, you know. Evidence-based. Waiting for the evidence to be almost overwhelming, so. And you'll find, I think, a lot of CEOs will tell you, I just-- I didn't act quickly enough because I didn't trust my own instinct.

Another thing I didn't do well. People always ask me, well, how would you rate your-- your tenure at Time Warner? And I'd say, I'd give it a B. Because I never figured out what to do with AOL. You know, AOL-- we merged with AOL in 2000. I became CEO two years later and-- and AOL had lost its way. And, you know, it was my job, along with the team there, my job to figure out what to do with this entity which, during the '90s, was the fastest growing company in America, I believe, in terms of stock. We never figured it out. Now, they still haven't figured it out. AOL's still around and they still haven't figured out a new business model for it. But that-- I'm sure there was one out there somewhere, and I just-- I didn't-- I didn't capture it.

ANDY SERWER: That's interesting for me to hear on a personal level, Dick, because I worked with you, as you said, at Time Warner when you owned AOL. And now I work at Yahoo, owned by Verizon, which also owns AOL. So this is my second go-round working with AOL folks. But it's a very different sized company-- let's just put it that way--

DICK PARSONS: Yes.

ANDY SERWER: --than it was back then. I want to ask you a little bit more about-- about Time Warner. My understanding is that you said a couple of years ago, the AT&T-Time Warner merger made sense conceptually, but that it would be harder to pull it off the ground. And I wonder what's your assessment of that company at this point now?

DICK PARSONS: Well, you know, I think they are pursuing the strategy that-- that animated and it infused as a merger, i.e. AT&T fundamentally thinks of itself as a distribution company. They fundamentally thought of Time Warner as a content creating company. And they said, if we can-- if we can put the two together, we can use that content to-- to further monetize our distribution. That simple.

And they are-- they're trying. So they've launched-- they made a bet on streaming, right? They really have almost walked away from the traditional content outlets, and they say, we're going to put it all, all our chips, on streaming. They've created this HBO Max and they're pushing everything that they can-- not only just the HBO stuff, but the Warner Brothers stuff, and some of the Turner stuff-- through HBO Max. We'll see if they're successful.

ANDY SERWER: You know, it's interesting. This question of whether you should marry content with distribution is not a new question.

DICK PARSONS: Nope.

ANDY SERWER: In fact, that's what you wrestled with, with Time Warner. And I think that, ultimately, you guys decided that it needed to be unbundled back then, because you took the company apart, correct?

DICK PARSONS: Well, yeah. Our notion-- I mean, when I got there, it sort of made sense that, you know, if you have Warner Brothers and HBO and Turner-- and we had Time Warner Cable at the time-- somehow, you know, you could increase or enhance the value of some part of that chain by requiring the chain to come together. As we looked at it then, that's not the case. Because, you know, Warner Brothers could make more money selling its stuff to anybody and everybody who was interested in it, then it could just putting its stuff through Time Warner Cable. Same for HBO. I mean the content creators had-- had more opportunity if they were allowed to sort of go into the marketplace and sell their wares than simply putting it through our single pipe.

The-- the thing that has changed-- and how much of a change it's going to result in, I don't know-- is streaming, OK? That's-- that's the new player in the game. Can you-- because it's a different model. Can you-- and I say-- I say it's a different model because now the interest is, how many subscribers can you attract by offering a rich streaming service? And can you make more money that way than selling your wares one at a time to different streamers or different distribution outlets? I don't know. I think-- I mean, I think streaming is definitely here to stay. I think, how many will succeed is another matter.

ANDY SERWER: Right.

DICK PARSONS: And-- and I think, you know-- I think that people have in their minds declared dead some of the distribution-- the traditional distribution outlets that aren't dead yet. I mean, you know, broadcast television, because it still has a lock on sports. Still hugely popular. I think once we get past this pandemic you're going to see the movie business come back to life through-- in theaters. So-- and music is going to be, you know-- it's going to be streamed, but it's also going to be done, you know, by album release, et cetera, et cetera. It'll be digital, but it won't be streamed. So I think streaming is here to stay. I think it's for real. But I don't think it necessarily is going to be the whole game.

ANDY SERWER: I want to shift gears a little bit, Dick, and ask you about basketball. And you took over as interim CEO of the LA Clippers in 2014 after the team's owner at that point, Donald Sterling, was removed for making racist comments. What do you think of the league's activism today, led by players like LeBron James?

DICK PARSONS: Well, I think it's inevitable, Andy. You know, for a long time society has-- has wanted to place on the shoulders of these athletes, particularly the notable athletes, quote, responsibility for acting in a responsible way, right? So if LeBron James or some other, you know, well-known athlete went out and did something that was frowned upon or may even have been against the law, they would get the big, you know, shame on you. You were supposed to be a role model for young people growing up in this country and you're supposed to know you're supposed to act better. That's your responsibility.

Well, having placed that responsibility as a society on the shoulders of these young men and young women, they're now-- they're now responding in a-- in a entirely predictable and, I think, appropriate way. They're saying, well, if I'm a model for others to follow, if I-- if I've been invested with that power, I want to use it for something I believe in. And Lord knows this is a group that has a reason to believe in social justice and equity. So, you know, we created this monster, if you will, and now-- now we're going to live with it.

ANDY SERWER: Is the NBA in a better place than the NFL? What is the difference between the NBA and the other leagues, Dick?

DICK PARSONS: Yeah, I think the NBA is in a better place than any of the other leagues. And I'll be a little biased here because, you know, I had a lot of experience with the current head of the NBA-- the National Basketball Association-- Adam Silver. I think the leadership of the NBA is par excellence. That's not to say that the leadership of the other leagues isn't good or even great, but I think Adam's almost in a class by himself. He's very a intelligent man, but who has-- who had values and judgments and the courage to-- to take a stand when he believes that something is right or wrong.

And-- and then there are a few people in the NBA who have-- who, I think, have followed the lead and who just happen to have a standing among fans and within the country. Like LeBron. You know, I don't know who the LeBron equivalent is in the hockey league or the NFL. There are lots of players in those two leagues who have great fans, but they don't have the sort of national standing that a few of the basketball players have. But I fundamentally think it comes down to leadership. And I think the leadership of the NBA is exceptional.

ANDY SERWER: Let me ask you about New York City, Dick. You were born in Brooklyn, grew up in Queens, went to public school, and now we have COVID and the city's under siege. Other cities are as well, but let's just talk about New York. Are you worried about how New York City will come out of the pandemic?

DICK PARSONS: I could be whistling past the graveyard, as they say. But no, I am not. I mean, New York-- if you had-- to anybody who knew the city, give me five words that characterize New York City, one of them would have to be resilience. New York is-- New Yorkers are resilient, they're tough, they're inventive, they're innovative. I mean, I live in the city. I live downtown. I-- I can't tell you the number of restaurants that have recreated themselves outside, out in-- you know, they've been given a lane in the streets that run in front of them and part of the sidewalks.

You know, they're going to find a way to make it. And when this pandemic is behind us, that New York resilience is going to come back. And the infrastructure-- you know, you can't replicate this infrastructure anywhere in any time frame. So that-- you know, being able to bring people together and disperse them, the infrastructure for the cultural things that are part of New York, as well as the workplace, I think New York comes back from this. Now, in a month? No. In a year? Probably not. But in a couple of years? Yes. I'm not worried.

ANDY SERWER: Speaking of New York, let me ask you about the Apollo Theater where you stepped down as chairman last month after more than two decades on the theater's board. How is the theater faring, which is-- it's a horrible business to be in, obviously, during the pandemic. Number one, how is it going to get back on its feet? I think, what, Chuck Phillips' the guy who's taking over?

DICK PARSONS: Yes.

ANDY SERWER: And he's got his hands full. And then what legacy do you hope to leave as it moves into this future?

DICK PARSONS: OK. Well, I mean, if you go back 20 years, the problem that the Apollo faced was it was about to shutter its doors. Just couldn't get, you know-- the place needed a facelift, to be sure. And you just couldn't get anybody uptown, and we weren't attracting the kind of acts-- we weren't doing the kind of programming that really was attractive to people. And so, you know, it looked like it was going to go under-- slip beneath the waves.

Again, largely-- once I became chairman, you know, we sort of augmented the board with some people who could really help on the-- on the programming side as well as financially. And then, as is my, I would argue, secret sauce, we recruited in a CEO, a young woman named Jonelle Procope who was a magician. She had the ability to, A, get along with the uptown crowd. You know, it was-- it was an uptown crowd that was-- that jealously guarded the Apollo. I mean, they thought of it as a-- as a jewel and as almost the property of the Harlem community, because that's where it had always been and they didn't want to see it sort of taken out from under them by, quote, the downtown crowd. But they needed-- you know, we needed to supplement that passion.

Between Jonelle and myself we were able to do that. Bring on some people who, as I said, not only brought on some-- some financial reserve-- and here, tip of the hat to Ron Perlman who was one of our saviors. But to create a programming lineup that was appealing to both the community and to the larger arts community. And that's what we've been involved in over the last 20 years. And so the Apollo, now-- I mean everybody sort of knows the Apollo's back in the game, back as the place where you can see innovative, new, and entertaining programming you can't see any place else.

We were about to have, probably, our best year ever in 2020 when we got hit by COVID. So the place has been closed. But, you know, we've taken a lot of what we've done programmatically and put it online and that's been successful. But we got to get the theater open again. And this goes back to your earlier question about the resilience of New York. I think by end of spring we'll be able to reopen the Apollo. And I have every confidence that under Chuck Phillips' leadership it's going to continue to soar.

My legacy, which is what you asked about. I think I would say-- and I would say this about all the places I've been. My-- my hope, my objective would be to leave a place in good shape and in good hands. And certainly with respect to the Apollo. The Apollo's in pretty good shape right now and we're leaving it in great hands with Chuck Phillips coming in to take the chair and Jonelle continuing as CEO.

ANDY SERWER: Dick, last question. I want to ask you your advice to young people who are trying to persevere and survive during the pandemic, and then think about their careers and move forward. What would you tell them?

DICK PARSONS: Three things. One, believe in yourself. I've seen so many people fail to achieve what they're after because they don't really believe in themselves. They're-- they're expecting-- and this is particularly true among African-Americans-- they're expecting someone to try and stand in their way because of their race or something like that. Well, that guy doesn't like me because I'm Black. You know, believe in yourself. Set your sights on an objective and believe in yourself.

Two, you have to have a skill, right? You have to be able to add value to whatever enterprise it is you want to be a part of. As I told you, in my case, I thought the value that I added was providing some leadership and I could put together good teams. Other people were subject matter specific. But you have to be able to add value. And then, three, you've got to outwork the other guy.

ANDY SERWER: Got it. Dick Parsons, Senior Advisor at Providence Equity, former chairman of Citigroup, former CEO of Time Warner, and businessperson extraordinaire. Thanks so much for your time.

DICK PARSONS: Andy, it's been a pleasure. I'm happy to see you looking so well and doing so well. Thank you for the opportunity to chat.

ANDY SERWER: Thanks, Dick. You've been watching "Influencers." I'm Andy Serwer. We'll see you next time.